"There are countless horrible things happening all over the world and horrible people prospering, but we must never allow them to disturb our equanimity or deflect us from our sacred duty to sabotage and annoy them whenever possible." -Auberon Waugh
I dunno. The ship had a captain who should have been watching what was going on, and the captain has the ultimate responsibility for the safety of his own ship. I'll be interested to see if there's a Board of Inquiry or equivalent. Clearly, though, it appears that the harbor pilot was probably guilty of, at least, contributory negligence.
My understanding is that as soon as a port pilot boards and takes over he is fully responsible for the ship. 'The pilot is not an adviser to the Master (Captain)' is repeatedly stated in legal stuff online as a principle in previous court cases.
But in this case it appears that the ship was stuck in reverse which directly caused the collision. Plus it's such an unusual ship. So, local authorities can claim they took all reasonable care and the ship's mechanical problems aren't their fault. I've changed my mind about it and am not sure who to blame now. (See above Twitter thread for details).
What I'm seeing online is that the captain is never completely absolved from responsibility, even when a boat pilot takes control. The pilot is still an advisor - to be sure, one who should typically be listened to - and the captain can overrule him if he deems it necessary for the safety of the ship. What I don't understand is this: these boat wallahs all study geometry and trigonometry and such. So how is it that nobody saw that the masts were too high to make it under the bridge?
A private company runs the NY port services, both tugboats and pilots (since 1864!), so I don't know what DOGE has to do with that. https://www.mcallistertowing.com/ports-and-rates/new-york
See above John Konrad thread - with ship stuck in reverse, best chance to avoid collision would have been towing from the bow, but where do you put a powerful tug's tow-rope on a tall ship with bowsprit etc?
There was a NY harbor pilot in charge of the ship, and a NY tugboat manipulating it into dock:
ReplyDeletehttps://x.com/johnkonrad/status/1924104870996463917
The harbor pilot probably went somewhere to have a smoke.
DeleteOr out of the dock and off to sea. Either way, this is totally on NY authorities.
DeleteI dunno. The ship had a captain who should have been watching what was going on, and the captain has the ultimate responsibility for the safety of his own ship. I'll be interested to see if there's a Board of Inquiry or equivalent. Clearly, though, it appears that the harbor pilot was probably guilty of, at least, contributory negligence.
DeleteAh, nous verrons mon ami.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the depth of corruption in both New York and Mexico, "nous" may very well never "verrons".
DeleteMy understanding is that as soon as a port pilot boards and takes over he is fully responsible for the ship. 'The pilot is not an adviser to the Master (Captain)' is repeatedly stated in legal stuff online as a principle in previous court cases.
DeleteBut in this case it appears that the ship was stuck in reverse which directly caused the collision. Plus it's such an unusual ship. So, local authorities can claim they took all reasonable care and the ship's mechanical problems aren't their fault. I've changed my mind about it and am not sure who to blame now. (See above Twitter thread for details).
What I'm seeing online is that the captain is never completely absolved from responsibility, even when a boat pilot takes control. The pilot is still an advisor - to be sure, one who should typically be listened to - and the captain can overrule him if he deems it necessary for the safety of the ship. What I don't understand is this: these boat wallahs all study geometry and trigonometry and such. So how is it that nobody saw that the masts were too high to make it under the bridge?
DeleteA couple of mariners are noting that some photos show that the ship may have been going in reverse, probably due to an engine malfunction.
ReplyDeletehttps://x.com/mercoglianos/status/1924235911463669931
Also, Chuckie "The Ghoul" Schumer is blaming this tragedy on ... ... DOGE. Which really p.o.'d the Coast Guard AND the NYC Mayor.
https://hotair.com/tree-hugging-sister/2025/05/19/chuck-schumer-kind-of-wants-elon-musk-to-stop-killing-spanish-tall-ship-sailors-n3802915
A private company runs the NY port services, both tugboats and pilots (since 1864!), so I don't know what DOGE has to do with that.
Deletehttps://www.mcallistertowing.com/ports-and-rates/new-york
I think we can all agree that Chuck Schumer should be keelhauled.
DeleteSee above John Konrad thread - with ship stuck in reverse, best chance to avoid collision would have been towing from the bow, but where do you put a powerful tug's tow-rope on a tall ship with bowsprit etc?
DeleteTug pulling the bow may even capsize the ship - worse outcome. So Mc Allister co. did what they could, with no one expecting mechanical failure.
Delete